Episode 148 · Enterprise · 30 min

The layer under half of India's chargers

Numocity sells none of the hardware in an EV charging station, yet claims its software already runs 50 to 55 percent of India's charging network. The founders' argument: the durable business in electrification is not the charger but the layer stitching vehicle, charger and grid together — and the live fight is whether that layer gets billed per charger or per transaction.

RA
Ravikiran and Siddharth
Co-founders, Numocity · with Vishal Krishna
The layer under half of India's chargers — episode thumbnail
30:10
Said in this episode
▶ 21:06
50–55%
Share of India's charging network on the platform
Ravikiran's own estimate, offered with the caveat that India's charger counts are contested and no standing number exists; Numocity is the software layer, not a charge point operator.
▶ 12:43
2 lakh
Customers supported on the platform
Stated as over two lakh customers served today; the host had asked about vehicles, and the answer was given in customers, with India and the Middle East the largest installed bases.
▶ 7:20
5,000 → 200,000
What an ambitious network means, then and now
In 2018 operators talked about 5,000 charge points; large enterprises now describe 100,000 to 200,000 as the target. The accompanying 'factor of a thousand' line is rhetorical, not arithmetic.
▶ 23:12
30–40%
Share judged a win in Asia and the Middle East
Ravikiran expects four to five platforms to emerge per market, since competing operators will not run on the same software — so a third of a growing market counts as a strong position.
▶ 23:35
10%
Target share in the United States
North America is described as roughly five years further along and more established, so the stated goal is ten percent of a large market and a top-ten slot among vendors.
▶ 12:11
23
Countries the platform reaches
An aside from host Naganand rather than a figure the founders confirmed on air, and partly garbled in the captions — treat as approximate.
The brief

The argument in sixty seconds

Ravikiran's claim is that EV charging has stopped being one market and become four, and that a software vendor's pricing has to split along with it. In 2018-19 every operator was small and still validating whether a network could work at all, so everyone wanted the lowest possible opex and Numocity billed per charger added. Today oil and gas, utility and telecom buyers talk about 100,000 to 200,000 charge points where 5,000 was once ambitious; asset-light vehicle OEMs would rather share revenue than own anything; mid-size operators and the home long tail still want the old per-asset bill. Siddharth's half of the argument is that the technology question is settled — batteries bigger and cheaper, luxury brands going electric for experience rather than cost, FAME subsidies tapering without sales collapsing — so what remains is unglamorous: field asset management robust enough that an operator never wonders whether its IT will scale, plus a market-specific layer on top, because Middle East driving patterns look nothing like India's. Their proof is position: over two lakh customers on the platform, India, the UAE and Saudi Arabia as the top three markets, and the claim that half the country's charging network passes through their software in one form or another. The stakes are whether an Indian middleware company can carry that into North America on channel partners alone — and whether the next layer up, the grid, is theirs to take.

Worth your time if you are

B2B founders whose pricing model is up for renegotiation
Charge point operators choosing a software layer
Investors sizing India's EV charging infrastructure
Indian SaaS teams planning a first North America push
Policy watchers tracking FAME's taper
Episode map

Where the conversation travels

Every block is a chapter, coloured by what it's about. Click any of it to jump straight to that minute on YouTube.

01Cold open: fund one to fund two 0:00 IdeaSpring's Naganand opens his founder-in-focus series with the founders of Numocity, recalling the 2019 cheque into an unproven EV thesis and the second cheque now going into the same company as a growth-stage bet. 02EV clears its validation phase 1:45 Siddharth's read of the market: batteries are bigger and cheaper, cost parity has arrived in some segments, luxury brands adopted electric for experience rather than economics, and China, the US, Europe and India are each running their own version of the transition. 03From lowest-opex SaaS to four buyers 5:20 In the 2018-19 blue ocean every operator was validating and wanted opex as low as possible, so Numocity charged per asset added — until the market split into large enterprises, mid-size networks, a home and apartment long tail, and asset-light OEMs. 04Per charger, per transaction, or revenue share 7:50 Operators that own no assets move happily to revenue share, asset owners refuse to give up top line and push toward a large enterprise-software deal with a transactional topping, and the mid and small stay on the old opex bill. 05A stack that grows with the customer 10:20 Siddharth splits the product in two: field asset management built so an operator can add chargers and geographies without asking whether its IT will keep up, and a layer above it that differentiates the consumer experience market by market. 06Two lakh customers, and the fleets 12:25 Asia and the Middle East are the largest installed bases with over two lakh customers on the platform, and the emphasis is on three- and four-wheelers and logistics fleets riding e-commerce and quick commerce rather than the two-wheeler segment. 07Next layer: the grid, then North America 15:10 Ravikiran's five-year picture is an end-to-end stack across vehicle, charger and grid as charging load becomes a new problem worth solving, with North America entered through embedded channel partners rather than an expensive in-house sales team. 08Europe is a red ocean 17:40 Europe is written off as fragmented and crowded with players who have already tried and failed, China is out by strategy, and APAC markets like Indonesia and the Philippines are seeded now because they resemble India two or three years ago. 09Agnostic by iteration, not by research 18:45 With standards fragmented across geographies and no certainty about which will win, Numocity picks a region-specific approach, pilots it fast with smaller and mid-size customers, and iterates on the solution while staying obsessed with the problem. 10Half of India's network runs through it 20:50 Charger counts in India are contested, but Ravikiran estimates 50 to 55 percent of the market runs on their platform — India, the UAE and Saudi Arabia lead — and large customers now treat a company that still works like a startup as a big vendor. 11What a good share looks like 22:40 Once four or five platforms emerge in each newer market — competing operators will not share one — 30 to 40 percent is judged a strong share in Asia and the Middle East, while 10 percent and a top-ten slot is the American ambition. 12FAME one to three, and the taper 23:45 Answering the pessimism question, Siddharth traces India's policy consistency from FAME one's broad kickstart to FAME two's focus on impact and public transport to the reduced end-user subsidies since — with industry momentum arriving as support receded. 13Oil imports, Delhi air, US flux 26:20 The bullish markets are the ones that import their fuel and breathe their own traffic — India, APAC, the Middle East — while a change of regime in the US reads as flux rather than a stop, and European subsidy cuts have not immediately dented sales. 14Top five, and every petrol bunk 28:20 The stated goal is a top-five global technology vendor serving large enterprises, on the logic that they move the market, and the closing image is a charger at every petrol bunk with Numocity software inside it.
Takeaways

Ideas to carry out of this hour

01

Charging has left the question phase and entered the adoption phase

Siddharth's read is that the last five years answered the technology question rather than the demand one: batteries got bigger and cheaper, cars got better, and cost parity arrived in some segments. His sharper point is that electric is no longer a trade-off at all — the luxury segment adopted it for experience, not economics, which means the pitch has shifted from sacrifice to superiority. What is left is adoption and growth, and the infrastructure that has to keep up with it.

02

One market became four, and only one of them wants to scale a thousandfold

In 2018 everyone was small and looked identical, and an ambitious network meant about 5,000 charge points. Four years on the market has segmented into large enterprises — oil and gas, utilities, telecom — talking about 100,000 to 200,000 points and ubiquity like petrol pumps; mid-size operators still running the old playbook; a long tail of homes and apartments that never form a network; and vehicle OEMs acting as mobility service providers. A vendor that only serves one of those four segments is building for a market that no longer exists.

03

Who owns the asset decides how the software gets billed

Numocity's original model charged an operator every time a charger was added, because low opex was what a validating market wanted. Now asset-light players — the OEMs and mobility providers who put chargers somewhere without owning them — move cleanly to revenue share, since revenue is exactly what they earn. Asset owners resist, because a revenue cut comes out of top line they need to cover their own margins, so they push toward a large enterprise-software licence with a transactional topping on it. Ravikiran expects a mixed bag for another year or two while buyers decide which one they are.

04

The market-share claim is a technology claim, not an operator one

Ravikiran opens with the caveat that India's charger numbers are contested and nobody holds a standing figure — then estimates that 50 to 55 percent of the market is served by their platform. The distinction he insists on is that Numocity is not a charge point operator: it owns no chargers and sells no electricity, yet roughly half the country's network passes through its software in one way or another. That is the position he wants to convert into a top-five global vendor slot.

05

Channel partners, not a sales army, are the way into North America

Building an American sales team from Bangalore would take capex and opex the company would rather not spend, so the route in is partners who already carry utility and US portfolios. The framing matters: Numocity does not want resellers pushing its software, it wants to be embedded inside a partner's end-to-end offering as a complementary add-on. Europe is skipped on purpose — fragmented, crowded with players who have already tried and not succeeded — while APAC markets two or three years behind India get seeded now, so the growth arrives with the customer.

06

The next layer of the stack is the grid, not the charger

As adoption rises, chargers stop being an IT problem and become an electrical one: every charging session adds load to a grid that was not planned for it. Ravikiran's five-year ambition is a stack that stitches the vehicle side, the charger side and the grid side together, so that EVs disturb nothing in the energy value chain and every party in it can still make money. It is a bet that the utility, not the operator, is the customer that has not been served yet.

07

Subsidies tapering is a graduation, not a collapse

Siddharth reads India's policy arc as unusually consistent: FAME one funded broad adoption, FAME two narrowed to impact and public transport rather than convenience, and end-user subsidies for two- and four-wheeler purchases have been cut back since. His claim is that the timing worked — by the point support receded, the market had products and momentum, and the industry picked up rather than stalled. He points at European markets where subsidies tapered without sales immediately falling off, and reads the US policy reversal as flux rather than a stop.

08

The impact case gets made through enterprises, not consumers

Asked how an EV software company moves the needle, Ravikiran's answer is deliberately indirect: without charging there is no EV, and the entities capable of building charging at national scale are large enterprises. So the focus shifts to being the platform those enterprises can transform on — smaller segments still served, but no longer the point. The ambition attached to it is a top-five technology vendor globally, and a charger at every petrol bunk running their software.

The numbers, drawn

What the episode measures

Every figure below was said on air — timestamps included, caveats kept.

Conversation share

portion of the hour spent on each theme
Mobility & EV · 24%SaaS & enterprise · 16%Sales, GTM & growth · 16%Regulation & policy · 13%Climate & energy · 11%Unit economics · 10%
Mobility & EV24%
SaaS & enterprise16%
Sales, GTM & growth16%
Regulation & policy13%
Climate & energy11%
Unit economics10%
Computed from the chapter map of this episode.

What a network now means

charge points
Ambitious network, 25,000Enterprise ask today100,000Enterprise ask today200,000
As stated in conversation: operators talked about 5,000 charge points in 2018, while oil and gas, utility and telecom buyers now describe 100,000 to 200,000 — charging as ubiquitous as petrol pumps.▶ 7:20

Share held, share wanted

% of a market's charge points
India today55Asia and Middle East40United States target10
Ravikiran's estimates, with his own caveat that India's charger counts are contested. India today was given as 50-55% and the Asia/Middle East target as 30-40% (upper bounds shown); the US goal is 10% and a top-ten vendor slot.▶ 21:06
Worth keeping

Lines that stay

Today I don't think EV is any more perceived as a trade-off compared to conventional technology. It is in fact now a platform to deliver a superior customer experience.

— Siddharth ▶ 3:32

We are not the charge point operator — but from a technology point of view, probably half of the country's network is going through our platform in one way or the other.

— Ravikiran ▶ 21:20

We are now not seen as a startup by many companies. The larger companies see that we are actually a big company — although we'll continue to work like a startup.

— Ravikiran ▶ 21:51

By the time the subsidy programme tapers down, the market is ready with more products. As government support began to taper, the industry picked up — and now there is a momentum behind it.

— Siddharth ▶ 26:00

As an EV company we often get asked how we are moving the needle. Without charging there is no EV — so if we can enable the larger enterprises to move, that is our contribution to clean mobility.

— Ravikiran ▶ 29:05
Clips that travel

Short on time? Start here

B2B founders whose pricing model is up for renegotiation

The four buyers of charging software

How a per-charger opex bill fractures into revenue share for asset-light players, an enterprise licence for asset owners, and the old model for everyone else.

6:04 → 10:20 · 4 min ▶ Watch clip
Product leaders serving customers at very different scales

Two lakh customers and a stack per market

Field asset management built so an operator never worries whether IT will scale, plus the market-specific layer above it — and why fleets, not two-wheelers, are the focus.

10:53 → 15:10 · 4 min ▶ Watch clip
Indian B2B founders planning a first US push

The grid, the partners, and the North America plan

Why the next layer up is the grid, why embedded channel partners beat an American sales team, and why Europe is a deliberate skip.

15:25 → 18:45 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
Investors sizing India's charging infrastructure

Half of India's chargers, and what a good share looks like

The 50-55% claim delivered with its own caveats, the top three markets, and the 30-40% and 10% targets that follow from expecting four or five platforms per market.

20:52 → 23:45 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
Anyone reading EV-slowdown headlines

Subsidies taper, adoption doesn't

FAME one to three as a policy arc, energy imports and Delhi air as the structural case, and a reading of the US reversal as flux rather than a stop.

24:08 → 28:15 · 4 min ▶ Watch clip
Glossary

The jargon, unpacked

CPO (charge point operator)
The company that owns and runs a charging network — Numocity's core customer, since Numocity supplies the software layer and never the chargers or the electricity.
EMSP (e-mobility service provider)
An asset-light player, often a vehicle OEM, that gives drivers access to charging without owning the hardware — and therefore prefers to share revenue rather than pay per charger.
Per-asset SaaS
The 2018-19 default in charging software: the operator pays a fee each time a charger is added to the platform, keeping operating expense minimal while the business model is still being validated.
Roaming
Borrowed from telecom: letting a driver signed up with one charging network use another operator's hardware, with the two settling between themselves — raised in the episode as a model the industry is drifting toward.
FAME
India's central subsidy scheme for electric mobility, traced in the episode from a broad first phase, to a second phase funding impact and public transport, to a third stage with end-user purchase subsidies cut back.
Grid load management
Handling the extra electrical demand that charging puts on the distribution grid — the layer Numocity wants to add on top of its vehicle and charger software over the next five years.
Connections

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Full transcript

The whole conversation, searchable

119 segments

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