Episode 173 · Impact · 58 min

The next ecosystem is a village

IIM Calcutta Innovation Park has spent a decade incubating startups in villages rather than Bengaluru — 2,500-plus of them, 20,000 direct jobs, 10 million lives by its own survey, and almost no valuation headlines. Jain's claim is that Viksit Bharat 2047 gets built by rural SMEs, and that an incubator's real score is how many of its companies are still alive in five years, not how much money it deployed.

AJ
Ajay Jain
Chairperson, IIM Calcutta Innovation Park · with Vishal Krishna
The next ecosystem is a village — episode thumbnail
57:55
Said in this episode
▶ 12:33
2,500+
Startups incubated in villages and small towns
IIM Calcutta Innovation Park's count after about ten years, roughly half of the portfolio sitting in rural India; the other half is commercial, including drones, AI and medtech.
▶ 12:46
10 million → 1 billion
Lives touched, today and the 2047 goal
The 10 million figure across the east and Northeast comes from the Park's own survey, alongside more than 20,000 direct jobs; the billion is a stated 2047 vision, not a projection.
▶ 20:08
~700 / 25-30
Incubators in India, and how many are profitable
Jain hedges the 700 as approximate. Most, he says, were given central funds to set up a centre and stalled once the money ran out.
▶ 30:23
2-3% → 10%
The Northeast's share of Indian entrepreneurship
Where the region sits today versus the target Jain sets for it, after seven years of the Park working across Northeastern villages and small towns.
▶ 48:26
1.69%
Indian patents that become commercial products
Cited on air as the conversion rate from patents filed in India to commercially viable products — the basis for his claim that patent counts are not innovation.
▶ 44:53
₹8 cr → ₹300 cr
Turnover versus the valuation being asked
Another incubator had already marked the company at roughly 40x; the Park's counter was ₹20 crore. The earlier investor had entered at a ₹10 crore valuation and needed 10x.
The brief

The argument in sixty seconds

Jain's claim is that India's next startup ecosystem will not come out of Bengaluru, Hyderabad or Delhi but out of its villages — and that the institutions funding innovation are keeping the wrong scoreboard. More than two-thirds of India's jobs are created by SMEs, he argues, so Viksit Bharat 2047 either happens in rural and semi-rural India or it does not happen; half of IIM Calcutta Innovation Park's portfolio sits in villages by design, and a decade of that work adds up to more than 2,500 incubated startups, 20,000 direct jobs and, by the Park's own survey, 10 million lives touched across the east and Northeast. The counter-model is concrete: money released in milestone-linked tranches instead of grants, a monthly MIS chased in person when it doesn't arrive, and a failure rate he puts under 20% against a national figure of 90%. He is blunt about the rest of the system — roughly 700 incubators in India of which only 25 to 30 are profitable, a company with ₹8 crore of turnover carrying a ₹300 crore mark from someone else's incubator, and 1.69% of Indian patents that ever become commercial products, because R&D sits in colleges chasing NIRF rank rather than in corporates chasing customers. And the frontier is geographic: the Northeast supplies 2-3% of India's entrepreneurship and he wants 10%, with a logistics hub rising outside Guwahati and the first tonnes of Meghalaya pineapple already landing in the UAE. The stakes he names are not exits but whether a Manipuri weaver ends up training 300 women instead of 25.

Worth your time if you are

Incubator managers whose set-up grant has run out
Founders building in the Northeast and the rural east
CSR and foundation heads buying social-impact programmes
Policy staff scoring startup schemes by money disbursed
Academics sitting on patents nobody has commercialised
Episode map

Where the conversation travels

Every block is a chapter, coloured by what it's about. Click any of it to jump straight to that minute on YouTube.

01Cold open: one signature, 25,000 lives 0:00 Vishal introduces a chairman with four decades behind him, and Jain answers the why-teach question with the union leader who told him in Ranchi that every signature on his desk moved 25,000 people — and with the grandmother who started a school for destitute women in 1950. 02Kuwait, 1983, and the three Ms 4:34 Jain walked away from one of 1983's highest-paying job offers because his father suggested a business in Kuwait before the Iran-Iraq war ended, and the years there with no ecosystem around him produced the test he now applies to every funded founder: manpower, method, machinery. 03Viksit Bharat will be built in villages 7:16 Money is not the constraint in India, Jain argues; the constraint is that the institutions of the 1980s and 1990s built businesses rather than social impact, and a developed India by 2047 depends on SMEs and rural ideas — where ₹25,000-30,000 a month does the work that ₹1 lakh does in Bengaluru. 04Ten years, 2,500 startups, 10 million lives 11:17 Set up as a Section 8 company so it could work outside IIM Calcutta's teaching mandate, the Park went to Assam and Manipur under the National Rural Livelihoods Mission and now counts returns in social equity — 2,500-plus startups, 20,000 direct jobs, and a Manipuri handicrafts entrepreneur who would rather train 300 women than buy a fridge. 05Fifty-fifty, and a billion lives by 2047 14:46 Asked bluntly about incubators that chase equity and headlines, Jain concedes the Park has never tom-tommed its social half, splits its work 50-50 with commercial startups in drones, AI and medtech, and sets the target of touching a billion lives by 2047 — starting with street vendors and an Assamese pickle-maker who now sells across the east. 06700 incubators, and the alumni delta 18:11 A ₹10,000 crore government fund reaches startups through SIDBI and DST-recognised incubators rather than directly, but of roughly 700 incubators only 25 to 30 are profitable — most spent their set-up grant and stalled — while alumni money stays lopsided at ₹250-300 crore a year for IIM Ahmedabad against ₹25-30 crore for IIM Bangalore. 07Empathy, failure, and the mentor-coach line 23:22 A branding exercise told the Park its differentiator was empathy, which leads Jain into failure — Silicon Valley's preference for founders who have already lost, his own offer of 300 mistakes when asked for three, the congratulations he gives students who do badly — and into the difference between a coach who corrects your stance and a mentor who is a sounding board. 08The Northeast stops being a frontier 28:34 Part two reimagines geography: a region that supplies 2-3% of India's entrepreneurship and could supply 10%, where new rail links, multiple airports and an Assam government logistics hub outside Guwahati are finally letting a founder in Manipur or Assam sell beyond her own state. 09Pineapples to the UAE, past the Siliguri Corridor 32:40 An agritech founder's move north sets up the pineapple story — the belt between Shillong and Guwahati, Lulu Group's first 10 to 12 tonnes shipped to the UAE, the discarded skin that becomes handicraft — against the access problem that everything still squeezes through one narrow corridor. 10Women, Tata's challenge, 18,000 applications 37:25 New IIMs, an IIT and an AIIMS are landing in the Northeast alongside four Park MOUs, and the entrepreneurs showing up are disproportionately women — a Pernod Ricard programme for women founders, an ex-professor building an AI startup near Guwahati, and a Tata Social Enterprise Challenge that drew more than 18,000 applications. 11Grants can't be taken for granted 40:55 Government money is plentiful across the rural and urban livelihood missions, Startup India, the deep-tech fund and the Atal centres, but it goes out as grants — which has bred founders who raise, fold in two years and start again — so Jain wants survival at three to five years and jobs created written into the KRA, and money released against milestones. 12₹8 crore of turnover, ₹300 crore of ask 44:08 Jain's valuation war stories: a company with ₹8 crore of turnover carrying a ₹300 crore mark from another incubator that had bought in at ₹10 crore and needed its 10x, a founder promising ₹100 crore next year while doing business development alone, and the raft-and-superstructure metaphor he keeps returning to. 131.69%: patents that never become products 47:11 India stays an outsourcing economy in deep tech, Jain argues, because R&D sits in academic institutions chasing NIRF rank while corporates in Japan, China, Germany and Korea generate a quarter of their countries' patents — and only 1.69% of patents filed in India turn into commercially viable products. 14Water is a national problem, not a slide 50:45 Clean tech is next, but only once companies stop treating it as pollution-control compliance: more than 80% of India's water is already contaminated, Punjab is drilling to 2,000 feet, and the work will be done by grassroots founders in villages rather than in the boardrooms and conferences where sustainability currently lives. 15Leaders create leaders 53:52 Jain's legacy answer is arithmetic — ten leaders better than him — illustrated by the ITI carpenter he hired who picked up welding, electrical and plumbing, left to start his own firm and out-turned Jain's company within five years; then his grandmother, his wife, and the two-ears-one-tongue mantra.
Takeaways

Ideas to carry out of this hour

01

India's next startup ecosystem is rural

Jain's case for Viksit Bharat 2047 rests on three claims stacked in order: it has to happen in the villages rather than the towns and cities, more than two-thirds of India's jobs are created by SMEs rather than large businesses, and the ideas are already floating around rural and semi-rural areas waiting for someone to fund them. Half of IIM Calcutta Innovation Park's startups sit in villages by design. The arithmetic of success also changes with the postcode: a founder in Bengaluru may feel he needs ₹1 lakh a month, while ₹25,000-30,000 rewrites a life in a village.

02

Social equity beats a social unicorn

The Park's reported scoreboard after roughly ten years is 2,500-plus startups incubated in villages and small towns, more than 20,000 direct jobs, and 10 million lives touched across the east and Northeast — with the stated goal of a billion by 2047. Jain's illustration is a Manipuri handicrafts entrepreneur earning ₹8,000-10,000 a month who has already trained 20 to 25 people; asked what she would do at ₹50,000-60,000, she said she would train 300 more. That multiplier, he argues, matters more than a social unicorn or an ₹8,000 crore valuation.

03

India's incubator layer is itself un-incubated

By Jain's count there are close to 700 incubators in India and only about 25 to 30 are profitable; most were handed government money to set up a centre, spent it, and had no idea what came next. He puts IIM Calcutta Innovation Park among only two or three incubators in the country with real capital reserves, built over a decade, and wants to run a management development programme for the rest. The alumni channel that funds American universities barely exists here — IIM Ahmedabad collects ₹250-300 crore a year from its alums, IIM Bangalore ₹25-30 crore — which is why the Park is planning an alum-funded AIF of its own.

04

Score survival, not disbursement

The government's problem, in his telling, is not the volume of money but its shape: grants, measured by how much went out. That has bred a class of founders who raise from A through H, fold the startup inside two years, and start another one a year later. His proposal to the ministry is that the KRA become survival at three to five years and jobs created — the same discipline the Park applies internally by releasing funding in two or three milestone-linked tranches, demanding a monthly MIS, and sending someone to the office when it doesn't arrive. He claims a failure rate under 20% against a national figure of 90%.

05

Valuation is usually a borrowed number

A company with ₹8 crore of turnover arrived asking for a ₹300 crore valuation, already blessed at roughly 40x by another Indian incubator; the Park's number was ₹20 crore. When Jain dug in, the earlier investor had put ₹1 crore in at a ₹10 crore valuation and needed its 10x inside a four-to-five-year exit promised to LPs. Another founder, at ₹12 crore of turnover, projected ₹100 crore next year and a ₹500 crore valuation — and was doing business development single-handed. His line for both: no superstructure can be built if the raft underneath it is weak.

06

Innovation is commercialisation, not patent counts

Only 1.69% of patents filed in India get converted into commercially viable products, and Jain refuses to call the rest innovation — value exists only when somebody pays for it. The structural reason is who does the R&D: in Japan, China, Germany and Korea he puts 25-27% of patents and research with corporates, while in India it concentrates in academic institutions, partly because R&D output lifts a college's NIRF ranking. The fix he wants is two-way traffic — corporates walking into labs to ask what is on the shelf, and labs walking into corporates to ask what to tweak.

07

Sustainability will not be solved in boardrooms

More than 80% of India's water is already contaminated, Punjab is drilling to 2,000 feet, and Jain cites a United Nations study putting 79% of the state's wells beyond redemption — hedging on air that the figure may be overstated. Most corporates, he says, still think about clean tech only as far as keeping the pollution control board off their back, with Tata's commitment to be water positive across its companies by 2030 as the counterexample. His bet is that the durable answers come from grassroots founders who have worked with their hands, not from conferences and presentations.

08

Failure is the qualification; leaders are the output

Failure teaches and success makes you arrogant, which is why Silicon Valley's investors prefer founders who have already lost and why Jain congratulates students who do badly in an exam. Asked by IIM Calcutta to present the three biggest mistakes of his career to sixty CEOs, he offered a list of 300. The same logic runs into his definition of leadership: he picked up an ITI-trained carpenter who taught himself welding, electrical work and plumbing, and who eventually left to start his own installation company — five years on, that company's turnover was larger than Jain's own.

The numbers, drawn

What the episode measures

Every figure below was said on air — timestamps included, caveats kept.

Conversation share

portion of the hour spent on each theme
Impact & outcomes · 22%Education & skilling · 15%Founder journey · 12%India macro · 11%Venture capital · 11%Supply chain & agri · 9%
Impact & outcomes22%
Education & skilling15%
Founder journey12%
India macro11%
Venture capital11%
Supply chain & agri9%
Computed from the chapter map of this episode.

The Northeast's share of Indian entrepreneurship

% of the ecosystem
Northeast today2.5The target Jain sets10
As stated on air: about 2 to 3% today (midpoint shown) against a stated task of taking it to 10%. The base measure was described loosely as the entrepreneurship ecosystem and GDP.▶ 30:23

Failure rates: the national number and the Park's

% of startups that fail
India, typical90IIM-CIP portfolio20
As stated on air — Indian startup failure quoted as 90%, 'maybe more'; Jain puts the Park's failures at 'less than 20', i.e. a success rate better than 80%. Self-reported and portfolio-selected.▶ 26:53

What the IIMs raise from their alumni each year

₹ crore a year
IIM Ahmedabad275IIM Bangalore27.5
Midpoints of the ranges given on air: ₹250-300 crore a year at IIM Ahmedabad against ₹25-30 crore at IIM Bangalore. Jain's remark on IIM Calcutta's own figure was left deliberately vague.▶ 21:53
Worth keeping

Lines that stay

Please bear in mind that one signature of a CEO of a company impacts 25,000 lives.

— Ajay Jain, quoting his union president in Ranchi ▶ 3:15

Failure teaches you; success makes you arrogant.

— Ajay Jain ▶ 24:51

For me innovation is not patent filings. Innovation is commercialisation. Value is only created when it gets commercialised — when somebody pays for it.

— Ajay Jain ▶ 48:26

No superstructure can be built if the base is not strong. That is the biggest problem with startups — they build the superstructure without having the base.

— Ajay Jain ▶ 46:44

If I can create 10 leaders who are better than me, for me, that is leadership.

— Ajay Jain ▶ 54:21
Clips that travel

Short on time? Start here

Managers who have never counted who depends on them

One signature, 25,000 lives

The union leader's arithmetic in a Ranchi bearings plant, the peon who is God to his children, and the empathy lesson that runs through the rest of the hour.

1:57 → 4:34 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
Incubator managers whose set-up grant has run out

700 incubators, and only 25 that work

The uncomfortable census of India's incubation layer, why reserves beat grants, and the alumni-funding delta between the IIMs.

19:53 → 22:39 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
First-time founders looking for a sounding board

Failure, mentors, and the coach who isn't one

Why Silicon Valley funds the twice-failed, why he congratulates students who do badly, and the cricket analogy that separates coaching from mentorship.

24:20 → 28:34 · 4 min ▶ Watch clip
Agritech and export operators eyeing the Northeast

Pineapples to the UAE

The sweetest pineapples in the world, Lulu Group's first shipment out, the skin nobody wastes, and the corridor everything has to pass through.

32:40 → 35:23 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
Founders being marked up by their first investor

₹8 crore of turnover, ₹300 crore of ask

How an early cheque at a ₹10 crore valuation manufactures a ₹300 crore number, and the raft-before-superstructure test he applies instead.

44:08 → 47:11 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
Glossary

The jargon, unpacked

Section 8 company
A not-for-profit company form under Indian company law; IIM Calcutta Innovation Park was set up as one so it could work in rural areas independently of the institute's teaching mandate.
Viksit Bharat 2047
The government's stated goal of a developed India by the centenary of independence — the frame Jain uses to argue that the work has to happen in villages, not boardrooms.
National Rural Livelihoods Mission
The central programme funding rural livelihoods and self-employment; the Park has delivered under it in several states and currently runs programmes in Tripura and Jharkhand.
Siliguri Corridor
The narrow strip of land connecting the Northeast to the rest of India — the physical reason market access, not ambition, has been the region's binding constraint.
Ministry of DONER
The Ministry of Development of North Eastern Region, described here as sitting on substantial surplus funds and pushing hard on the region.
NIRF ranking
India's national ranking framework for higher-education institutions; because research output lifts the score, Jain argues it pulls patent filing into colleges rather than corporates.
AIF
Alternative Investment Fund — the SEBI-registered pooled vehicle the Park is planning to raise from IIM Calcutta alumni, still at the planning stage.
MIS
The monthly management information report the Park requires from every company it funds; a missing one triggers a visit rather than an email.
Connections

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Full transcript

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