Episode 92 · Deep tech · 38 min

The lab was never the bottleneck

India's deep-tech constraint was never the science: top Indian labs now rival the American ones this professor trained in, and for the best institutions money is a secondary problem. What was missing was permission — so IIT Madras rewrote its own rules until a patent could be filed inside 24 hours and a faculty company incorporated, with space and seed money, in four to six weeks. The bottleneck, on this argument, is the administration, not the researcher.

KB
Krishnan Balasubramaniam
Professor and former Dean, Industrial Consultancy & Sponsored Research, IIT Madras · with Vishal Krishna
The lab was never the bottleneck — episode thumbnail
38:28
Said in this episode
▶ 18:52
24 hours
Time to file IP protection at IIT Madras
Protect first, ask whether it was worth patenting later — against months or years under the old policy.
▶ 20:18
4–6 weeks
From decision to a registered faculty company
One email to the company secretary and legal offices, no out-of-pocket expense, and mentorship, space and seed funding arrive with the registration.
▶ 10:43
~1/3
Share of an SBIR award that can reach the university
The design choice he credits for making SBIR a game changer for American deep tech.
▶ 25:52
TRL 2 vs 8–10
The gap between what labs produce and what industry buys
Academia usually stops at zero to one, maximum two on a ten-point scale; industry wants eight, nine or ten — the valley the push-and-pull programmes exist to fill.
▶ 30:36
1/4 the cost
What the Tata Nano demanded of a US bearings maker
Same bearing, a quarter of the price, on far rougher roads — and the CTO's plan was to sell the Indian-developed version back into the US at that price.
▶ 33:20
~1,000 aircraft
India's order book over the next 5–10 years
The number he uses to argue India is on the cusp of becoming a major aerospace player, alongside ISRO opening up to private space companies.
The brief

The argument in sixty seconds

Balasubramaniam's claim is that India's deep-tech constraint was never the science. Indian labs now rival or slightly exceed the American ones he spent sixteen years in, and for the top institutions money is a secondary problem — what was missing was permission. He watched the American version of that shift up close: in 1985 his own PhD advisor ran a startup in his research field 'hush hush', because faculty companies were frowned upon; within five or six years you effectively did not get promoted without one, and SBIR — which let roughly a third of a small company's award flow to its university partner — turned the new permission into a pipeline. He came back to IIT Madras in 2000 to find the same silence, and spent a decade dismantling it: an IP policy that files first and asks whether it was worth patenting afterwards, protection inside 24 hours, and a spin-out path that starts with one email and ends, four to six weeks later, in a registered company with mentorship, space and seed funding. The harder rewrite was cultural — an administration that went from risk-averse to risk-taking and now celebrates failures as much as successes, in a country where a founder he had pushed into entrepreneurship once wept in his office because no father would give him a bride without a payslip. Two of his students' companies came out of that turn: underwater inspection robots working on hundreds of dams and bridges, and a high-temperature ultrasound sensor found half by accident. The stakes are arithmetic. If even the tier-two and tier-three institutions produce two or three deep-tech companies a year each, he thinks India in 2040 is Japan in 1980 or Korea in 2000 — the country everyone wants to buy technology from.

Worth your time if you are

Faculty sitting on a lab result they have told nobody about
Tier-two university administrators building an incubation cell
Deep-tech founders spinning a company out of a campus
Policy people designing India's version of SBIR
Investors trying to source from labs rather than demo days
Episode map

Where the conversation travels

Every block is a chapter, coloured by what it's about. Click any of it to jump straight to that minute on YouTube.

01Cold open: a startup nobody could mention 0:00 TDK Ventures' Siddharth opens the India deep-tech series, and the professor starts in 1985 America, where his own PhD advisor ran a startup in the same research field quietly because faculty companies were frowned upon — a norm that flipped within five or six years into a promotion requirement. 02Back to IIT Madras, and the same silence 2:28 Landing at IIT Madras in 2000, he found startups already emerging from the labs but nobody willing to admit it — so the Research Park concept, a rewritten intellectual property policy, an IP cell on campus and an incubation cell in the park were assembled until the 2010 incubation policy made it all legitimate. 03Two spinouts: underwater robots, hot ultrasound 5:21 Four undergraduates who had won awards in underwater robotics were pointed at inspection instead; Tanuj left for a large automotive company, came back six months later, and the 2015 company they built now makes hundreds of dams and bridges safer — while Tarun Mishra's accidental discovery of a film that produces ultrasound at very high temperatures became a pipe-monitoring IoT system. 04Indian labs stopped being the constraint 8:16 The facilities gap that was real in the 1980s has closed: many Indian labs now rival or slightly exceed their American counterparts in equipment, expertise and capability, and for the top institutions money is a secondary problem. 05SBIR, the American game changer 9:52 US departments published detailed problem lists — down to what they had already tried and failed — any small business could bid, and roughly a third of the award could flow to an academic partner; NSF and NIH then made an end-use angle near-mandatory for funding. 06The mindset clause 11:59 Publications and PhD students remain the job, but the subtle addition — asking whether a technology might change one life or one industrial process — is a mindset change that, once it happens, has no reverse gear. 07Sir, you have ruined my life 13:18 A brilliant robotics researcher he pushed into founding a company arrived in his office in tears — the business was doing well, but no father would hand over a bride without a payslip — and the Startup India movement plus a run of visible successes is what finally gave entrepreneurship its social standing. 08No single block builds an ecosystem 16:45 Asked how IIT Madras produces names like Detect and Solinas, he refuses a single cause: the Research Park is not the building but the people and the culture inside it, and moving something from a bench to a user is a long process with many interlocking blocks. 0924 hours to a patent, six weeks to a company 18:52 IP is now filed within a day, no questions asked, and the question of whether it was worth patenting comes afterwards; a faculty startup takes one email to the company secretary and legal offices, no out-of-pocket expense, and yields a registered company with mentorship, space and seed funding in four to six weeks. 10From risk-averse to risk-taking 20:36 The administration's own mindset was the deepest change: nobody expects every company to succeed, failures are celebrated as much as successes, and faculty are meant to try, fail, regroup and come back. 11The tier-two multiplier and one committed hire 21:38 The count of Indian institutions makes the arithmetic enormous if each produces two or three deep-tech companies a year — and the difference between campuses that manage it and campuses that don't is one full-time person brought in from the ecosystem rather than a committee of part-time faculty. 12GST, procurement and the TRL valley 23:42 His tailwind list runs from GST collapsing the manufacturing tax maze, through a government-as-marketplace programme that lets a startup supply defence or energy, to Ministry of Education schemes that dragged technologies from TRL two or three up to five and six — plus cyber-physical Technology Innovation Hubs, biotech's SBIRI and the defence ministry's iDEX. 13A bearing built for Indian roads 28:23 India first, built for the globe — he calls the pattern the reverse migration of technology, and illustrates it with the CTO of a leading US bearings maker who had to match the Tata Nano at a quarter of the cost on brutal roads, could not do it without an Indian test bed, and planned to sell the result back into the US. 14Where he'd bet: health, agri, aerospace, recycling 31:33 Innovation follows problems the West never had to solve — healthcare, biotech and agritech coming out of agricultural and small universities, aerospace on the back of an ISRO opening and a thousand-aircraft order book, ideaForge heading to an IPO, electrification and recycling. 15Japan, Korea, China — and the next twenty years 34:51 His parting arc: Japanese goods were trash in the 1960s and coveted by the 1980s, a Goldstar TV marked you as a cheapo before Samsung and Hyundai arrived, Chinese products were dismissed in 2000 and feared by 2020 — and the next twenty years are India's, if grassroots innovation is seeded and obstacles removed.
Takeaways

Ideas to carry out of this hour

01

The American shift took five years, and it was permission, not money

In 1985 his PhD advisor ran a startup in the same field as his research and kept it quiet, because a faculty member declaring a company was frowned upon. Within five or six years the norm had inverted so completely that you effectively did not get promoted unless you had a startup, or research landing inside a tech company. The funding agencies followed rather than led — NSF and others began building programmes that fostered exactly that relationship. The variable that moved first was status and permission, and his argument is that India's is moving the same way.

02

SBIR worked because a third of it could flow back to the university

Every US department published a list of topics in enough detail to say what they had already tried and what had failed; any small business could bid, and the structure encouraged a partnership with an academic group, with about a third of the funding able to go to the university. He calls that single design choice a game changer for American deep tech, and names India's closest analogue as the Department of Biotechnology's SBIRI — in his reading the only Indian scheme that is genuinely the same instrument.

03

Speed is the policy: 24 hours to protect, six weeks to incorporate

IIT Madras rewrote its IP policy to file first and ask whether it was worth patenting afterwards — protection within 24 hours, no questions asked, against months or years before. His reasoning is blunt: if a filing takes more than a few days, the patent probably was not worth having, because patents are vulnerable in many ways anyway. A faculty member who wants a startup needs one email from the incubation cell to the company secretary and legal offices, pays nothing out of pocket, and comes out with a registered company, a mentor, space and seed funding inside four to six weeks.

04

An administration that celebrates failure is infrastructure

The Research Park is not the building, he insists — it is the people who work there and the culture of innovation around them. The change that mattered most was inside the administration, which moved from risk-averse to risk-taking: nobody expects every company to succeed, and failures are celebrated as much as successes, with faculty expected to fail, regroup and try again. He frames this as the mindset shift administrations across the country still owe their researchers, and one no amount of built facility substitutes for.

05

The bottleneck moved from the lab to the living room

Research quality is no longer the gap: Indian labs now rival or slightly exceed the American facilities he worked in, and money is a secondary problem for the top institutions. What actually blocked founders was social standing. He tells of a robotics researcher he had encouraged into entrepreneurship who came to his office in tears — the orders were good, but no father would give him a bride without a payslip. Startup India and a run of visible successes changed that, and students now ask why they should not be the interviewer rather than the interviewee.

06

Frugal because India forces it — then sold abroad at a quarter of the price

His rule for every startup he is involved with is India first, made for the globe, because without that framing scalability breaks. He calls the pattern the reverse migration of technology, and his example is the CTO of a leading US bearings maker who came to him roughly a decade ago: the Tata Nano meant the same bearing at a quarter of the cost, running on roads more brutal than anything in the West, and he had no test bed at home to develop it. The innovation would happen in India, then be sold back into the US at a quarter of the price — because nobody refuses better and cheaper.

07

The multiplier is tier two and three, and each needs one full-time outsider

IIT Madras, Bombay and Delhi were the pioneers, but the arithmetic he cares about is the sheer number of Indian institutions: two or three deep-tech companies a year from each compounds into something he calls mind-boggling. The difference between campuses where this works and campuses where it stalls is a single appointment — institutions that lean only on faculty members struggle, while those that bring in one committed full-time person from the innovation ecosystem, an angel, an industry hand or someone from private equity, and hand them real tools, change dramatically.

The numbers, drawn

What the episode measures

Every figure below was said on air — timestamps included, caveats kept.

Conversation share

portion of the hour spent on each theme
Education & skilling · 24%Deep tech & hardware · 22%Regulation & policy · 20%Founder journey · 12%India macro · 9%Manufacturing · 7%
Education & skilling24%
Deep tech & hardware22%
Regulation & policy20%
Founder journey12%
India macro9%
Manufacturing7%
Computed from the chapter map of this episode.

The valley between a lab result and a purchase order

Technology Readiness Level (0–10)
Where academia stops2After the push progr6Where industry start8
As stated on air: academia usually sits at TRL zero to one, maximum two; industry likes eight, nine or ten; Ministry of Education schemes pushed technologies from TRL two or three to five and six. Upper bounds shown for the first two, lower bound for industry.▶ 25:52

How fast the institute says yes

days
IP protection filed1Faculty startup clea17Registered company, 42
Converted from the timings given on air — IP within 24 hours, a faculty startup cleared in two to two and a half weeks, and a registered company with mentorship, space and seed funding in four to six weeks (upper bound shown).▶ 19:43
Worth keeping

Lines that stay

The guy comes in literally in tears and says: sir, you have ruined my life. My business is going very well, thank you — but my life is not. No father wants to give me a bride; they are asking for a payslip.

— Krishnan Balasubramaniam, recounting a founder he mentored ▶ 14:32

Today we don't expect every company to succeed. We celebrate failures as much as we celebrate success.

— Krishnan Balasubramaniam ▶ 20:55

Today many of our enterprising students think otherwise — why can I not be the interviewer rather than the interviewee?

— Krishnan Balasubramaniam ▶ 16:15

Krishnan, you have got to understand — we are challenged by Tata's Nano. I have to make the same bearing at a quarter of the cost, and it will be used on roads far more brutal than anything I have encountered in the Western world.

— Krishnan Balasubramaniam, quoting a US bearings CTO ▶ 30:03

In the 1960s the West thought anything Japanese was trash. In 2000, nobody was even threatened by a Chinese product. In my mind, the next twenty years is India.

— Krishnan Balasubramaniam ▶ 36:12
Clips that travel

Short on time? Start here

Policy people designing India's version of SBIR

SBIR, and the third that goes to the university

The clearest two minutes on why American deep tech got a pipeline: published failure lists, small-business bids, and a third of the money flowing to the lab.

9:52 → 11:59 · 2 min ▶ Watch clip
Anyone arguing that culture, not capital, is the real constraint

Sir, you have ruined my life

The bride-and-payslip story, told against the Startup India turn that made entrepreneurship a career worth admitting to.

13:18 → 16:45 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
Tier-two university administrators building an incubation cell

24 hours to a patent, six weeks to a company

The operating manual: file first and ask later, one email to spin out, and an administration that decided to celebrate failure.

18:52 → 21:38 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
Founders deciding whether India-first kills global ambition

The bearing that had to survive Indian roads

Reverse migration of technology in one anecdote — the Nano forces a quarter-cost bearing, and the West buys it back.

29:40 → 31:33 · 2 min ▶ Watch clip
Investors sizing India's twenty-year technology arc

Japan, Korea, China — then India

His closing argument, built on three prior Asian reversals and what he thinks India owes its young talent to earn the fourth.

35:10 → 38:10 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
Glossary

The jargon, unpacked

SBIR
The US Small Business Innovation Research programme: federal departments publish detailed problem lists, small companies bid, and about a third of an award can flow to a partnered university group.
SBIRI
The Department of Biotechnology scheme he calls the only Indian programme genuinely built on the SBIR model, and one that has run consistently for years.
TRL (Technology Readiness Level)
A zero-to-ten maturity scale for a technology; academic work typically stops at one or two while industry buys at eight to ten, and the middle is the gap Indian push programmes target.
Incubation cell / IP cell
The two units IIT Madras created — the IP cell on campus handling patent filing, the incubation cell inside the Research Park handling company formation, mentorship, space and seed funding.
Technology Innovation Hub (TIH)
Department of Science and Technology hubs in cyber-physical systems that act as topical incubators; IIT Madras runs one of them.
iDEX
The defence ministry's innovation programme for startups, which he says took a while to get started but is now moving — he cites the Navy sourcing from a Bangalore company to close a crucial capability gap.
Reverse migration of technology
His term for frugal technology developed in India for Indian conditions finding applications abroad — in healthcare, agriculture, textiles and manufacturing — because better and cheaper travels upward, not just sideways.
Connections

If this resonated, go here next

Full transcript

The whole conversation, searchable

144 segments

Auto-generated captions, lightly cleaned. Click a timestamp to open that moment on YouTube.