Episode 116 · Capital · 56 min

Build local, sell global, and wait twelve years

India has some 18 million enterprises and, by Ideaspring's reckoning, about 65,000 actually worth a sales call — which is why the fund will not back a B2B company that plans to sell only at home. Naganand Doraswamy's other correction is aimed at his own fund: he wrote fund one as seven-plus-one-plus-one years, and now says Indian product innovation needs twelve.

ND
Naganand Doraswamy
Founder & Managing Partner, Ideaspring Capital · with Vishal Krishna
Build local, sell global, and wait twelve years — episode thumbnail
55:48
Said in this episode
▶ 18:57
18M → 65,000
Indian enterprises versus real B2B buyers
Of roughly 18 million enterprises he estimates about 65,000 are capitalised enough to sell to and make money; he flags he does not have the exact number in his head.
▶ 7:32
6 of 16
Fund one exits, with nothing shut down
Six of sixteen fund-one companies have exited; every product found a home and is still in use, and across the six the fund recovered more than it invested.
▶ 49:40
₹120 cr → ₹265 cr
Fund one and fund two sizes
Fund one is about $18 million, or ₹120 crore; fund two is ₹265 crore. Fund one still has roughly two years to run.
▶ 49:48
45%
Fund one DPI as of recording
Distributions to paid-in capital stand at 45% with the fund still mid-life; he declines to project a final multiple or IRR.
▶ 27:06
$1M
Revenue a founder must sell personally
Ideaspring treats the first million dollars as founder sales, and screens at investment for whether at least one founder can actually go and sell.
▶ 37:06
500 vs 0
US biotech-focused funds versus India's
He counts around 500 dedicated biotech funds in the US and cannot name one Indian VC who is a biotech PhD with a successful startup exit behind them — the gap that makes second rounds hard here.
The brief

The argument in sixty seconds

Doraswamy's first correction is semantic and it costs money: SaaS is not deep tech, which is why Ideaspring spent eight years funding what it calls product innovation — a bucket wide enough for both — and why he rates the government's new deep-tech definition so highly, since it turns on whether a rival would need two to three years to recreate what you built. His second correction is aimed at his own fund. Fund one was structured seven plus one plus one; he now says this asset class in India needs twelve years, and calls the shorter life the rookie mistake of a first-time fund manager. The arithmetic behind that caution is the part founders should copy down: 18 million Indian enterprises, roughly 65,000 of them worth a sales call, and ₹40–50 crore of Indian software revenue dividing down to five or six million dollars — so build local, sell global, and he would be nervous funding any B2B company that intends to sell only at home. The operating rules follow from there. Positioning, not the product, decides the financial outcome, and fund two enforces that with far more rigour than fund one did. The first million dollars of revenue has to be sold by a founder, which is why he prefers companies with two or three. Deals under $15,000 close inside a quarter; six-figure ones want a US logo before they want your India logos. And fund one's own scorecard — six exits from sixteen companies, nothing shut down, ₹120 crore deployed, 45% already returned — is a record he refuses to call failure while knowing it will be judged on multiples alone.

Worth your time if you are

B2B founders planning an India-only go-to-market
First-time fund managers writing a nine-year fund life
Engineers inside a GCC drafting a startup plan
Investors sizing India's entry point into semiconductors
Enterprise sales leaders pricing their first contracts
Episode map

Where the conversation travels

Every block is a chapter, coloured by what it's about. Click any of it to jump straight to that minute on YouTube.

01Cold open: SaaS was never deep tech 0:00 Vishal reopens the 2016 promise to fund founders who love technology, and Doraswamy explains why Ideaspring coined product innovation to hold both SaaS and genuine deep tech — a distinction the government has now codified with a definition he rates as good as policy gets: a rival should need two to three years to recreate what you built. 02Patient capital needs twelve years 4:52 Fund one was written as seven plus one plus one and fund two stretched to ten, but he now says the asset class needs twelve — a rookie fund-manager mistake made worse by a market where valuations overshot, Series C and beyond has gone quiet, and exits are, in his word, ridiculously painful. 03Fund one's scorecard: six exits, nothing shut 7:24 Sixteen investments, six exits, no company closed and every product still in use somewhere — including the Numocity sale to ABB — yet he accepts the only real scoreboard is the multiple on invested capital, while refusing to call a company with a great product and no financial outcome a failure. 04Not a bet, an investment decision 10:10 He interrupts the host's word choice to reject bet, then describes pre-revenue investing as a probabilistic game of too many uncontrollable variables where two hits out of sixteen or eighteen decide everything and adaptability is the only edge. 05Positioning, not product, decides the outcome 12:40 Across 28 portfolio companies the question that gets the most attention is why anyone would buy this and why it matters to them — and even seasoned repeat founders struggle, because a new product, market, geography and buyer persona reset most of what they learned last time. 06What a VC can actually add 15:09 Founder-to-founder playbooks are working in India but selling networks are not, so he argues a VC's two real contributions are introductions into buying processes and being reachable — a same-day callback — plus the maturity to abstract what generalises across companies from what does not. 07Eighteen million enterprises, 65,000 buyers 18:11 India has around 18 million enterprises but only about 65,000 capitalised enough to sell to, cheque sizes get negotiated down, and ₹40–50 crore of software revenue is five or six million dollars — so build local, sell global, and he would be nervous funding an India-only B2B company. 08Quantum, pollen and ships 20:46 Recent investments — quantum computation acceleration in software, real-time climate data being used for hyper-local pollen advertising, digital transformation on ships — all pass the same filter of India traction plus a global market, in an economy still at $3–3.5 trillion where mango freight has tripled because the containers are not ours. 09Deal size sets the sales cycle 24:30 B2B spends on sales what B2C burns on advertising, and the bands matter: under $15,000 should close within a quarter, mid-sized deals take three to six months, and a six-figure enterprise sale into a US Fortune 500 from India is a very low-probability event until you can name a US customer. 10The first million is founder sales 27:32 Nobody can hire their way to the first million dollars because nobody yet knows what sells or why, which is why he prefers two or three founders — and why founders, like investors, have to admit which school grade they can no longer teach. 11Programming becomes integration 29:30 He dismissed NFTs outright but reads generative AI as past the hype peak and into the enterprise-use-case hunt, where silos collapse into one queryable place; meanwhile programming has already become integration rather than writing code, and what you hire for is the smartness that cannot be automated. 12Defence, semiconductors and the biotech gap 34:42 Countries get technically advanced because defence buys from them, so iDEX purchasing from startups would be a huge fillip; semiconductors are a five-to-ten-year journey while assembly stays offshore; and biotech's constraint is not Indian science but an investing ecosystem that has perhaps 500 dedicated funds in the US and not one biotech PhD-turned-VC with an exit here. 13Start at 40 nanometres, not three 38:02 Only players with tens of billions can fight Nvidia or train foundation models, so India's opening is the unglamorous silicon — a chip that monitors tyre wear, the PCBs inside EVs, 40–50 nm parts that need no leading-edge fab — built where the automotive ecosystem already is. 14Battery tech is like cancer research 41:40 He passes on battery chemistry and cancer startups on the same principle — global races you cannot invest in without knowing the field's frontier — then works through telecom's five surviving hardware players and private 5G, scepticism about the $1.5 trillion space number, drones, and warehouse robotics as an already-solved problem. 15GCCs as the feeder for founders 46:10 Ideaspring backed product companies precisely because global capability centres would grow people who leave to start them — a thesis he now calls validated, helped by graduates increasingly staying in India, though he insists entrepreneurship needs an unusual mix of emotional and intellectual quotient. 16Fund three, four buckets, 6:45 a.m. 47:40 Fund three is targeted for around this time next year on the same agnostic, pre-seed-to-Series-A mandate; he lays out the four independent problems of raising, investing, growing and exiting, discloses ₹120 crore and ₹265 crore fund sizes with 45% already distributed, admits he cannot predict an IRR beyond a probability ladder, and closes on tennis before 9 a.m., policy work on Saturdays, Carnatic concerts and Indian history books.
Takeaways

Ideas to carry out of this hour

01

SaaS is not deep tech, and the label was costing India money

In 2016 the ecosystem was calling every SaaS company deep tech, so Ideaspring coined product innovation as the honest umbrella — SaaS underneath it, genuine deep tech beside it, and no pretending the two are the same asset class. Doraswamy's own bar is recreation time: if a competitor could rebuild what you have in under two to three years even with people thrown at it, it is not deep. He rates the government's new definition as about as good as policy can get on something this hard to pin down, and says fund two carries roughly twice as many real deep-tech companies as fund one.

02

An India deep-tech fund needs twelve years, not nine

Fund one was structured seven plus one plus one; fund two stretched from nine years to ten. His verdict now is that the work actually requires twelve, and that assuming things would move fast enough to exit inside a decade was the rookie mistake of a first-time fund manager. The market has confirmed it the hard way — valuations overshot, Series C and beyond went quiet, the correction is taking longer than expected, and he says exits have become ridiculously painful.

03

Six exits and no shutdowns is still not a return

Of sixteen fund-one companies, six have exited, and in every case the product found a home and is still in use rather than being switched off — across those six the fund got back more than it put in. He is clear-eyed that none of that is the scoreboard: LPs measure the multiple on invested capital, and influence over Indian product innovation does not show up in it. What he refuses is the vocabulary — a company that built a great product but produced no financial outcome is not, to him, a failure.

04

Positioning, not the product, decides the financial outcome

The question Ideaspring now spends most of its portfolio time on is not whether the technology works but why anybody would buy it and how badly they need it — get the messaging and the story right, then start the sales process. Fund one left that largely to founders on the assumption they were doing their best; fund two brings rigour, asking why growth is not 2x or 3x and what the customer feedback actually says. Even seasoned repeat founders need it, because a new product, market, geography and buyer persona reset most of what worked last time.

05

India's B2B market is about 65,000 companies wide

There are roughly 18 million enterprises in India, but by his estimate only about 65,000 are capitalised enough that you can sell to them and make money — and even then cheques are small and get negotiated down. The rupee arithmetic finishes the argument: ₹40–50 crore of Indian software revenue, which is already very hard to reach, divides down to five or six million dollars. Hence the house rule of build local, sell global, and his stated nervousness about funding any B2B product company that plans to sell only in India for the next five to eight years.

06

The first million dollars has to be sold by a founder

At the start nobody knows what will sell, why it sells, or which questions a buyer will ask, so there is no way a hired salesperson can carry it — the first million in revenue is founder sales, full stop. That is why Ideaspring prefers companies with two or three founders: one can go to market while engineering, still heavily weighted at that stage, continues. Past a million the sales process and the team take over, and the founder has to graduate again, or hire the leadership that can.

07

India's chip entry is 40 nanometres and a defence purchase order

Fighting Nvidia or training foundation models is a game for players who can put tens of billions on the table, and a complex high-end chip designed here has to be sold in the US anyway because the assembly and the value chain are not here. The opening is the boring silicon: 40–50 nm parts that need no leading-edge fab, the PCBs India currently imports for EVs, and, in one company he is looking at, a chip that monitors tyre wear — not as complex as a GPU, but required in every tyre. The other unlock is procurement: countries become technically advanced because defence buys from them, so if iDEX turns into real orders for startups that can hold quality, it is a huge fillip for deep tech.

08

Programming is now integration, so hire for what cannot be automated

He watched the industry go from two or three languages in the 1980s to a count nobody tracks, and says the paradigm has already shifted: outside a few cases, programming is integration — of tools, of GitHub, and now of code that a good specification can generate. Generative AI has come off its hype peak into the enterprise use-case hunt, where its real promise is collapsing sales, marketing and support silos into one place anyone can query, provided data management, prompting and hallucination are handled. Since general intelligence still looks far away, the durable hiring filter becomes the human smartness that automation cannot supply.

The numbers, drawn

What the episode measures

Every figure below was said on air — timestamps included, caveats kept.

Conversation share

portion of the hour spent on each theme
Venture capital · 26%Sales, GTM & growth · 18%Deep tech & hardware · 16%SaaS & enterprise · 12%AI & machine learning · 10%India macro · 8%
Venture capital26%
Sales, GTM & growth18%
Deep tech & hardware16%
SaaS & enterprise12%
AI & machine learning10%
India macro8%
Computed from the chapter map of this episode.

The only forecast he will give

% chance, as stated on air
Return 1x100Return 2x85Return 3x70
His own off-the-cuff probability ladder when asked to predict returns — offered as an illustration that fund returns are a probabilistic game, not as a modelled forecast.▶ 51:27

Two funds, eight years apart

₹ crore
Fund one (about $18M120Fund two265
Sizes as stated at the end of the conversation; fund one is roughly $18 million and still has about two years to run, with 45% of capital already distributed.▶ 49:40
Worth keeping

Lines that stay

Just a correction — I will not use the term 'bet'. It is an investment decision.

— Naganand Doraswamy ▶ 11:45

The first one million is all founder sales. You don't know what's going to sell, you don't know why it's going to sell, you don't know what questions are coming — there's no way you're going to get a sales guy to sell it.

— Naganand Doraswamy ▶ 27:06

Battery tech to me is like cancer research — everywhere you look, everybody is working on it. You cannot invest in something until you have the clarity.

— Naganand Doraswamy ▶ 41:55

As you grow older, every one of us becomes a salesperson. A CTO is selling technology, a CEO is selling to investors, a founder is selling to customers — and a fund manager is selling to his LPs.

— Naganand Doraswamy ▶ 49:09

What can I control? I can control my hard work and I can control my ethics, so that when I look somebody in the eye I can always say I've been honest and I've worked really hard. Beyond that — market, founders, outcomes — a lot of it is not in my control.

— Naganand Doraswamy ▶ 50:28
Clips that travel

Short on time? Start here

LPs and first-time fund managers

Six exits, nothing shut down

A rare public scorecard: sixteen companies, six exits, every product still in use, and an honest account of why that is still judged only on multiples.

7:24 → 10:10 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
B2B founders planning an India-only go-to-market

The 65,000-company ceiling

The clearest three minutes on why he would be nervous funding India-only enterprise software: 18 million enterprises, 65,000 buyers, and ₹40–50 crore that becomes six million dollars.

18:11 → 20:50 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
Enterprise sales leaders pricing their first contracts

Deal size, US logos, and founder sales

Contract bands mapped to sales cycles, why a US buyer asks for US customers before anything else, and the rule that the first million is sold by a founder.

24:59 → 27:40 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
Investors sizing India's entry point into semiconductors

Start at 40 nanometres, not three

Why the Nvidia race is unwinnable here and the real opening is tyre-wear chips, EV boards and 40–50 nm parts next to an automotive ecosystem that already exists.

38:44 → 41:40 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
Anyone deciding whether to run a fund

Four buckets and what he can control

Raising, investing, growing and exiting as four separate hard problems — plus fund sizes, DPI, and a refusal to predict the number everyone wants.

48:38 → 51:40 · 3 min ▶ Watch clip
Glossary

The jargon, unpacked

Product innovation
Ideaspring's own umbrella term, coined in 2016, covering both SaaS and deep-tech products — created specifically so SaaS would stop being marketed as deep tech.
Deep tech (his test)
Technology a well-resourced competitor would still need two to three years to recreate; India now also has a government definition he rates highly.
DPI
Distributions to paid-in capital — the share of investor money a fund has actually returned in cash, standing at 45% for Ideaspring's fund one at the time of recording.
MOIC
Multiple on invested capital: the number a fund is finally judged by, regardless of how good the products in the portfolio were.
Founder-led sales
The practice of a founder personally selling the first million dollars of revenue, before any sales team exists — an Ideaspring screening criterion at investment.
iDEX
The Indian defence ministry's innovation scheme through which startups can win orders from the armed forces — in his view the single biggest potential fillip to Indian deep tech.
GCC
A global capability centre: a multinational's in-house engineering site in India, which he treats as the feeder pool that produces future product-startup founders.
Fund life
The years a fund has to invest and return capital — written as seven plus one plus one for fund one, extended to ten for fund two, and in his revised view really twelve.
Connections

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Full transcript

The whole conversation, searchable

220 segments

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